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Tuesday, 25 February 2014

Libs Ask: What's Wrong With "After-Birth" Abortion?

This has recently come to my attention. I was previously aware of how the liberals and feminazi's are pushing hard to have abortion legalised (at state expense) for everything up to "partial birth". This would mean that a woman can legally - and without the consent of the father - kill her child even when that baby has been partially born alive. Now we have 2 "philosophers" advocating for post-birth abortion (ie: infanticide/murder as right minded people understand it) with the justification that it is morally permissible to kill a new born baby (even if it is healthy and has a reasonable prospect of living a healthy life and where the mother is not in any physical danger) because that baby is not yet a "person". They further go on to say that the choice should entirely be the mother's (I did not see a single reference to "father" and only a few to "parents") and would be allowable if the mother feels that she cannot take care of the baby because of economic and social factors.

I'm sorry, but how the hell can anyone even begin to think that this could be a justification??? I am not 100% anti-abortion as I believe that there are a few instances where abortion may be justified, for instance, where continuing with the pregnancy would endanger the life of the mother. What choices did the "mother" have beforegiving birth in the first place? (yes this is a generalisation and there are exceptions which I understand)
1. Abstinence - the best way to not get pregnant if you don;t want to or aren't ready to is to just NOT have sex at all. Like my mom always said to me, if you are old enough to play adult games then you are old enough to take adult responsibility.
2. Contraceptives - if you really feel that you just have to have sex then why not invest in a little thing called birth control? There are literally dozens of ways the most popular of which include the pill, the injection, condoms and a diaphragm. 
3. First trimester abortion - You discover you are pregnant (maybe 6 weeks or so), you have about 6 weeks to legally and safely abort the pregnancy. Why leave it for a further 7  1/2 months?
4. Adoption - If you are determined to carry the baby to term then why not give the child to a couple who cannot have kids and wants them?

Each and every single one of the above methods is a simple way of preventing a person from taking on the mantle of motherhood should she feel she is not yet ready for it. Why would you feel that it is OK to spend 9 months nurturing and growing a child within your body, feeling it grow and move and come alive, go through the process (and expense) of childbirth just to kill the resultant infant? It cannot for the life of me understand it. And then we need to ask these people if they feel that a parent who kills their newborn baby at home has committed a punishable crime? If it is morally permissible to kill a newborn because the mother cannot handle being a mother either financially, socially, emotionally etc then will they allow it up to a week or 2 fater the birth when the baby is at home and the mother discovers how tough it is taking care of that little life - even if before the birth she was looking forward to it?

How sick are the people who think that it is morally permissible to kill a baby? A defenceless, newborn child who is your flesh and blood? It really makes me want to get off of the planet now. You can see what othyers have to say about the "philosophy":

After-Birth Abortion


The pro-choice case for infanticide.

A Dutch baby born on Feb. 29, 2012
A Dutch baby born on Feb. 29, 2012
Photograph by Robin Utrecht/AFP/Getty Images.
Just when you thought the religious right couldn’t get any crazier, with its personhood amendments and its attacks on contraception, here comes the academic left with an even crazier idea: after-birth abortion.
No, I didn’t make this up. “Partial-birth abortion” is a term invented by pro-lifers. But “after-birth abortion” is a term invented by two philosophers, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva. In the Journal of Medical Ethics, they propose:
[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child. Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk.

Will Saletan writes about politics, science, technology, and other stuff for Slate. He’s the author of Bearing Right. Follow him on Twitter.
Predictably, the article has sparked outrage. Last week, Reps. Joe Pitts, R-Pa., and Chris Smith, R-N.J., denounced it on the House floor. But it isn’t pro-lifers who should worry about the Giubilini-Minerva proposal. It’s pro-choicers. The case for “after-birth abortion” draws a logical path from common pro-choice assumptions to infanticide. It challenges us, implicitly and explicitly, to explain why, if abortion is permissible, infanticide isn’t.
Let’s look at some of those assumptions.
1. The moral significance of fetal development is arbitrary. I often hear this argument from pro-choicers in the context of time limits on abortion. In a debate last fall, I drew up a timeline of fetal development, week by week. The response from Ann Furedi, chief executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, was that it would be arbitrary to use any point in that timeline to draw a legal limit on abortion rights. Giubilini and Minerva seem to share this view. “Abortions at an early stage are the best option, for both psychological and physical reasons,” they write, conspicuously omitting the idea that abortions at an early stage are better than late ones for moral reasons. “Merely being human is not in itself a reason for ascribing someone a right to life,” they write. “Indeed, many humans are not considered subjects of a right to life,” such as “spare embryos where research on embryo stem cells is permitted” or “fetuses where abortion is permitted.”
Furedi accepts birth as the first logical time limit, though not for reasons of fetal development. (See her comments 44 minutes into this video.) But Giubilini and Minerva push beyond that limit. They note that neural development continues after birth and that the newborn doesn’t yet meet their definition of a “person”—“an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.” Accordingly, they reason, “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus, that is, neither can be considered a ‘person’ in a morally relevant sense.”
2. Prior to personhood, human life has no moral claims on us. I’ve seen this position asserted in countless comment threads by supporters of abortion rights. Giubilini and Minerva add only one further premise to this argument: Personhood doesn’t begin until sometime after birth. Once that premise is added, the newborn, like the fetus, becomes fair game. They explain:
[I]n order for a harm to occur, it is necessary that someone is in the condition of experiencing that harm. If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us, then there is neither an actual nor a future person who can be harmed, which means that there is no harm at all. … In these cases, since non-persons have no moral rights to life, there are no reasons for banning after-birth abortions. … Indeed, however weak the interests of actual people can be, they will always trump the alleged interest of potential people to become actual ones, because this latter interest amounts to zero.
You may find this statement cold, but where’s the flaw in its logic? If the neurally unformed fetus has no moral claims, why isn’t the same true of the neurally unformed newborn?
3. Any burden on the woman outweighs the value of the child. Giubilini and Minerva note that philosophers such as Peter Singer have presented arguments for neonaticide for many years. Until now, these arguments have focused on what’s best for the baby—in the words of recent Dutch guidelines, “infants with a hopeless prognosis who experience what parents and medical experts deem to be unbearable suffering.” Giubilini and Minerva merely push this idea one step further, calling their proposal “‘after-birth abortion’ rather than ‘euthanasia’ because the best interest of the one who dies is not necessarily the primary criterion for the choice.”

“Actual people's well-being could be threatened by the new (even if healthy) child requiring energy, money and care which the family might happen to be in short supply of,” they observe. Accordingly, “if economical, social or psychological circumstances change such that taking care of the offspring becomes an unbearable burden on someone, then people should be given the chance of not being forced to do something they cannot afford.” An after-birth abortion might be warranted by any “interests of actual people (parents, family, society) to pursue their own well-being”—including “the interests of the mother who might suffer psychological distress from giving her child up for adoption.”
4. The value of life depends on choice. Pro-choicers don’t accept the idea that the path from pregnancy to maternity, being natural, must be followed. They argue that the choice is up to the woman. Some assert that the life within her has no moral status until she chooses to give birth to it.
Again, Giubilini and Minerva simply extend this logic beyond birth. Since the newborn isn’t a person yet, its significance continues to hinge on its mother’s decision. Neonates “might or might not become particular persons depending on our choice,” the authors argue. Until then, the newborn imposes no obligations on us, “because we are not justified in taking it for granted that she will exist as a person in the future. Whether she will exist is exactly what our choice is about.”
5. Discovery of a serious defect is grounds for termination. Fetal development can turn tragic at any point. Most people agree that abortion should be permitted when a grave defect is discovered at amniocentesis. In the partial-birth abortion debate, pro-choicers extended this rationale, arguing that abortions in the third trimester should be permitted when horrible defects were identified at that stage. Giubilini and Minerva take this argument to the next level, noting that defects often remain undiscovered until birth:
An examination of 18 European registries reveals that between 2005 and 2009 only the 64% of Down's syndrome cases were diagnosed through prenatal testing. This percentage indicates that, considering only the European areas under examination, about 1700 infants were born with Down's syndrome without parents being aware of it before birth. Once these children are born, there is no choice for the parents but to keep the child, which sometimes is exactly what they would not have done if the disease had been diagnosed before birth.
The authors conclude that “if a disease has not been detected during the pregnancy, if something went wrong during the delivery, or if economical, social or psychological circumstances change such that taking care of the offspring becomes an unbearable burden on someone, then people should be given the chance of not being forced to do something they cannot afford.” And it isn’t clear where the line against infanticide would be drawn. “We do not put forward any claim about the moment at which after-birth abortion would no longer be permissible,” Giubilini and Minerva write. They doubt that “more than a few days would be necessary for doctors to detect any abnormality in the child.” But critics are already noting thatmany defects are discovered later.
In sum, the authors argue:
If criteria such as the costs (social, psychological, economic) for the potential parents are good enough reasons for having an abortion even when the fetus is healthy, if the moral status of the newborn is the same as that of the infant and if neither has any moral value by virtue of being a potential person, then the same reasons which justify abortion should also justify the killing of the potential person when it is at the stage of a newborn.
I don’t buy this argument, in part because I agree with Furedi that something profound changes at birth: The woman’s bodily autonomy is no longer at stake. But I also think that the value of the unborn human increases throughout its development. Furedi rejects that view, and her rejection doesn’t stop at birth. As she explained in our debate last fall, “There is nothing magical about passing through the birth canal that transforms it from a fetus into a person.”
The challenge posed to Furedi and other pro-choice absolutists by “after-birth abortion” is this: How do they answer the argument, advanced by Giubilini and Minerva, that any maternal interest, such as the burden of raising a gravely defective newborn, trumps the value of that freshly delivered nonperson? What value does the newborn have? At what point did it acquire that value? And why should the law step in to protect that value against the judgment of a woman and her doctor?
You can also see some more on this issue here where Melissa Harris Perry justifies the practise and several "college" students sign a petition to legalise "4th trimester" abortion. Insanity and immorality abounds.


  1. Wow!!! Now all they need do is make the maximum age for performing "after-birth abortion" 95 years and you've effectively blanket-legalized murder. I consider cannibalism to be utterly contemptible, but at least they kill for food! This academic-left lot who are supposedly highly educated must preferably not cross my path!

    1. I had a similar thought. What happens when they decide that only an adult can be a "person"? That would leave us able to kill our children at any time up until that point presumably because they are only there because we as parents choose to have them there.

      And what about the issue of "loosing personhood"? When does someone cease to be a person in the case of someone with alzheimers or dementia or even many mental illnesses? Should we then be allowed to "abort" them too? And who decides when this takes place?

      And finally we have to ask the question of: why are people advocating for the post-birth killing of babies and yet will at the same time oppose the death penalty for rapists and murderers? There is no logic at all.

  2. I am without words GG. Now we know this liberals, and people who support such an idea of blatant murder, are from satan himself. What have this world become? And the doctors who will perform that "procedure"? Will they do it?

    1. Who knows? It seems like there is absolutely no respect for innocent life anymore. And this is what they are being taught at schools and universities. Complete removal of God from everything has led to this. Nothing is as important as oneself anymore. A complete and utter shame and travesty of justice.